;
 

Visit Marie Curie, her instruments, her laboratory, a Pandora's box of Pandora boxes.

 (Interviewer) Work in progress on this web site.

The real Marie Curie lived and lives in  Two Worlds. She'S a  Bright Beacon in the Science World, BUT an  Enigma, in the Common World.  She ULTIMATELY  became The  most dangerous school girl in both worlds. 

Recently We, Jim & Rhoda U. Morris, had the wonderful opportunity of chatting with Mme. Curie to inspect, to exactly replicate and run,  her famous instruments  which she usually had housed in a large but surprisingly modestly equipped laboratory / processing plant.



The first photo below,  a rather personal one, is Marie in her laboratory holding in one hand a dish containing a special  sample in the other hand  she holds and manipulates  her unheralded wash bottle which she found most useful  in separate impurities from her radioactive materials.

Jim and Rhoda Morris   (Jim A Physicist, Rhoda A Chemist) interviewing Marie  under somewhat odd circumstances http://www.scitechantiques.com/ 
781 245 2897 Galileo@comcast.net


(Interviewer) What have you got  in your hand dearest Marie Curie, née Maria Salomea Skłodowska, Are you sharing with us your discoveries of Radium &  Polonium?

(Marie)----"Not really, rather I have found, and am showing you, the   Pandora's box!  A box filled with substances that are killers of enormous proportion. It holds a miraculous power to do enormous good. Its something you  cannot see but  can kill living things either very very slowly or vaporize them, and you, in less than few millionths of a second, something  that is  the most dangerous discovery to all life on earth, ever.

The discovery;
My Samples in my watch glass dishes were getting warmer and warmer the purer the samples became. They were maintaining this rise in temperature, never cooling. days and days, weeks and weeks, on and on telling us there was  enormous amount of energy  stored in the  atoms of these samples." Pierre and a colleague measured this unknown energy.  nothing  had ever shone  this kind of enormous energy. What had I done? Why me? Why My daughter
Irene Curie, why Lies. Meitner

 The ultimate product from our work was the atom bomb then the hydrogen bomb. Above  is the rough size of a chunk  of Uranium 235, other things work also, that would be in a single bomb  that could and did + - kill hundreds of thousands of people  in fractions of a second, more thousand more, slowly more painfully. I They will fill the sky with dirty radioactive dust  that would shut off our sun light to Not very big is it? World powers have built thousand of them with high speed rockets to deliver them., World powers that do not speak the same language or have have  same moral philosophies..

It has been recognized, been said, and it is true, not a scare tactic
"That the world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of  life.”

 

(Interviewer) Wow! So what are we to do. We here for other important things that you may have left out? You have left undone that for all practical purposes  would they  be classified as secrets,  secrets that needs disclosing because they are so important to us, each of us?

(Marie) "Yes its possible. Why not ask " What are we here for? Are we here to talk? Talk? about what my lab, my technical work, My love life, or just do it, to realize our duty and do it."


(Interviewer) Well ok but to start with will you let us understand why you  are wearing such an eerie dual expression on your face in the above photo, a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde expression rendered on your face, a division shown each side of  the tip of your magic wash bottle splitting your face into two personalities. One impish, speculatively, the other dark foreboding? Such a  totally unexpected phenomenon  seeing it appear on such a young, romantic, beautiful face? What are you holding back, why with hundreds of pictures taken of you are there only one or two percent with you cheerful, smiling. What are  you keeping  to yourself,  What frustration? You were too young to be feeling poorly from  the damage to your health from your experiments with radioactivity so why that look.  

(Marie)  "At best what is in our future from my discovery of the enormous energy  in the atom? It was one of the seeds for Einstein's famous, simple and elegant, equation e= mc^2   where Einstein calculates  that 1 unit of material is really  equal to  30,000,000,000,000,000,000  units of energy

  
Good, bad,  or both  from  this discovery. 
Some say that it is  the all deciding force for  all living spirits.
Should it  be constructively worried about by most  educated folks?  It is worth considering but  history is history is it not. what have I, what have we done to ourselves. We don't even speak the same language, an ambiguous language disagreement can and has risen to life and death proportions ."

(Interviewer) Are there more discoveries in all of your work that you could, should be sharing with us but haven't ?  Would they be hidden in your instruments, in your experiments, hidden in how and what you used them for?

(Interviewer) Listen its Marie her voice seem to she coming from machine in front of Jim one of the author of  the note.
Listen, listen carefully, can you hear her voice above the background conversations between  Galileo, Galvani, Volta and Faraday all debating with each other remarking it is  that people are still  are making technical decision about how nature works with out using scientific measurement to gain the best and  true answer.   true solutions to dangerous to solve their problems.  


(Interviewer) To the reader , Jim is touching, no, worshiping   one of Marie's instrument to see if there is an obvious secret in it. I have not washed my finger yet. Marie chose it from her original radiation detecting systems.  Its just a  simple metal  almost empty box with windows in each door containing not much more than a very thin, very tiny,  a super pure single crystal of chemically pure quartz, a beautiful scientific jewel   hanging  in the center of this box not by  the tiny wires connecting   each side  to the outer world. Its scientific function was not critical  to the measurement of radioactivity but was a helpful suggestion from Pierre and his brother based on other work on non conductors *(insulators) where they found the piezo electric phenomena. of quartz  which Marie used to help not in a vital way but did help in her earliest measurements of radioactivity and the discovery of Radium &  Polonium and----- and the most far reaching discovery and danger to all living creatures.

Marie did you feel by donating it to America  and having  it  on exhibit  others might view it first hand showing a bit of science to help them see how an actual  scientific instruments looks  like, hoping this might  help give one  a more comfortable humble  feeling about science. Maybe  by just seeing it in all of its simplicity.

(Marie) " Does it hurt if Pierre's contribution to many fundamental scientific  discoveries, including our work over his short life, if we  focus on such a small part of it by displaying one of his instrument. an instrument we used in our radium work? It may not be the sole purpose but we all have some  short memory issues don't we?

If one wants to find  a secret in it- why make it noticeable.?"

Are these secrets  something real,  something beyond the seemingly incomprehensible and boring details of some scientific discovery, something your not sharing with us despite the possibility these , ----- secrets may be   very important to us so  those grandest improvements in our lives  could, should  be realized, realized for us, to  us?

Marie " Secrets?"

They seemed to have   worked for you both in your personal and professional life. So what about us? Why should they be kept from us?

Please- please share in any way you can,  your inner, your inner most  secrets, learned thru a  successful scientific career but don't seem to be sharing openly with  us but should  share with us.  The ones you  have shared  successfully with your   family, the  ones that (some have hinted),  you shared while helping to organize, with your colleagues, a special  school  to enrich your and their special children with these secrets?

What about us dear girl, Marie Curie, née Maria Salomea Skłodowska,? What about us? eh?

We ask you these questions;  do you think we should not try to learn them just because you think we wouldn't understand  them, -- We think they are too - trivial, - too boring to listen to.  -  so we won't listen ,we won't learn, - we won't  apply them, so why bother? Is there  help that will work that may have not have been taken seriously? eh  

Won't you try despite these possibilities to tell us anyways?   What form would, should,  could,  it take?

Or have you already shared them but we just don't recognize them or understand them and you .
Or is someone or something standing in the way of them?  Who, why  could it possibly be? A conspiracy,  really  a conspiracy, a spy story?

There  is something going on here that we can't hear but  can see in the photos  below.


 

So Irene Curie is  in the laboratory with her mother.
What else is Marie sharing with Irene. What other secrets besides those of science? The conversation between Mon and Irene  certainly seems intense.

Below is Marie among a small elite group of the greatest scientists of all time sharing her secrets with the best, only the best.?

The founding members experimentalist , theoretician of the  physical scientist club. Each a competitor and colleague.
Marie bottom row 2nd from the right surrounded with  the giants of physics that set fire to our culture in the most critical yet obtuse way.

Here is the exclusive 1911-Solvay Conference on the theory of radiation and quanta:”  Who and what are they really planning In the back room to this back room with the sponsors of this work?

English: Photograph of participants of the first Solvay Conference, in 1911, Brussels, Belgium. Seated (L-R): Walther Nernst, Marcel Brillouin, Ernest Solvay, Hendrik Lorentz, Emil Warburg, Jean Baptiste Perrin, Wilhelm Wien, Marie Curie, and Henri Poincaré.

Standing (L-R): Robert Goldschmidt, Max Planck, Heinrich Rubens, Arnold Sommerfeld, Frederick Lindemann, Maurice de Broglie, Martin Knudsen, Friedrich Hasenöhrl, Georges Hostelet, Edouard Herzen, James Hopwood Jeans, Ernest Rutherford, Heike Kamerlingh Onnes, Albert Einstein, and Paul Langevin.

Who was really paying the bill  for this work or who is going to suffer or gain from the consequences of this work , work that affects you,  your life,  today in a major way, (good and bad),   will affect it tomorrow (good, bad), and will continue to affect it (good, bad) until your dead and then will  chase  your remains through the future (good, bad).


Is nature trying to tell us,, in the big and little picture, that  each of us is nothing but a stack of molecules running and run by super tiny but super dramatic electric forces auto steering and driving us according its laws?

Question and comment; (not just for Marie but a possible answer from Marie). Remember when you your children drove you and you drove your parents, to exasperation   by bombing  and being bombed by   questions, questions about everything and nothing. The  new born baby  searching touching and getting into everything everywhere? Why as adults did we, do we seem, to stop searching for  the secrets of our personal nature, for  Mothers Natures secrets?   Do We? Will We? Can't We? Wont We? eh


It would be most unusual for anyone to think about this even for a bit, although we do subconsciously with the each and every beat of our of heart as it pumps blood through our brain feeding its electrochemical circuits.


 

Care or not this is true by any standards, of  philosophy,   because of the  laws of nature, whether good or bad the body,  its brain just does it. There is so much going on just living most every thing our brain does much of it has to be on auto pilot, including thinking. But thinking and deciding requires lots of calories, more than most of us have  in surplus? hmmmmmmmmm

So was one of Marie Curie, née Maria Salomea Skłodowska and her world of science principal secrets, the drive from within to  to ask questions, to learn to identify  important, meaningful, solvable questions to solve them using physical measurement with instrument more sensitive than any human sense, of Time, Length and Mass  then to describe the answer  in the language of mathematics and   share,  when permitted by the sponsor, workable answers ( to who, how, and why )? Yes or no? No maybes? Look at the first picture at the beginning if this note of Marie face, both sides, of her face to see from her expressions what was the  answers, were are they the same?


Out of all of scientist  work do they gained little accept a couple of pieces of paper stating recognition for their work, a piece of paper from their own kind? Is it reasonable for Others, Non scientists, with great power to be the first to use the tech-people and their machinery  but mostly their work, they discard the non-productive scientist for new  younger blood? (Could it be that scientists are  like puppets on a financial; string)? Is this one of Marie secrets? If it is what good is it? Who cares? There are few more relaxed things , both good and bad, in life than being in auto drive.

What is Marie's position, what did she tell us by her actions, not her words. Is this, was this  her secret can we learn from it?

 

Certainly Marie's secrets seem to  served  those enough that it  helped  them to become famous, helped them toward Nobel prizes? Probably the only scientist most of us would recognize is Einstein in  back of Marie. Can you find him? how many more do you recognize, any one else.

Hey Marie! What is going on here why aren't we privy to this exclusive club, this  partner ship.


SEARCHES

to  the horizons have been going on for years and years  for  Marie's secrets.
 

But !

These days what can any author or ....  any part- time plagiarist..... say about Marie Curie's personal,   scientific or her secret life that has not already been  touched on ....over and over ..... again and again .... thousands and thousands of times. is the un-said  considered to boring for the  public, to obvious  to be saleable,  a  conspiracies remaining  Maries secret?

If the secrets are scientific ones they will be couched in the language of mathematics, which is almost a secret code used by the scientist  so they for all practical purposes are hidden, thus can be considered a secret?

Are we really barred from a  direct conversation with the scientists, their  discoveries by a language difference?

Are our  translators   which includes the media, the authors, the plagiarist  may be confusing us with their  bias, a bias possibliy created by having them make their  living , a living that requires  them to have a sufficient number of readers and listeners to make this  living, listeners that want exciting, interesting things for their amusement or will go somewhere else to hear someone else more interesting thus shutting us off from the factual world, the world spelled out with the dimension of time, length, mass, Nature's World where nature tells us what we can and cant do, what we are and what we aren't. who is right who is wrong................... not necessarily our translators who most likely have not spent years in the laboratory with the hard won tools of science learning and practicing the trade of understanding Nature, good old mother of all of Nature.

Has this created a bias? A bias that if the way of the scientist is dull he/she is not reported to the public at large. Some of Marie's work, her biggest far reaching  discovery was anything but exciting, at the moment, for the average folk, but not other scientists. Yet it turned out quite differently  to the folks at two cities in Japan at the end of  WW2.  Besides she also was only a girl.  So why talk about her discovery,  about it except to other scientists ? Is this then effectively a secret? It certainly  acts as one. How far would  this dilemma  reach into our lives in a negatively why? Does or could this process exist even now?

All these questions, remarks, suggestions, seemingly disconnected, just  blabbering nonsense hopefully can be answered but certainly not to everyone's considered satisfaction. eh. Right?
 

So the basic question before us as we go on.

 On your wish list, your super nontrivial wish list,  what do you want out of this life that you don't have. something others seem to have and you don't, something you feel you will never live to get, something lasting,     ---   something just for you?
 


Marie can you help us?  Would you, your world,  kindly help us. 

You have had wonderful  success with your science, with your limited freedom and independent financing that was  available. Would you help us understand what your world is like a little bit beyond  our translators super glorious view.  We can then try to decide for our selves, for our selves with a close to the  first hand basis's an authentic view of what your experiment and daily life, daily  was like  so we can learn from that what science is all about not just the science of the science. which is most often  really incomprehensible  even for a scientist in a parallel field.

At best the flood of these words might only to hint at-- or vaguely  remind us (very few of us)  that even well before Marie's magnificent time and continuing today.

Has all of this created the condition that ========================================================

"The truths of the world's personal sympathies and  scientific truths  differ in kind." and this maybe standing in your way.

Differences in  sympathies---  where do they come from, not out of thin air. They are not hidden, -- but out there,-- interesting , -- restricting, comical, -- frustrating, -- at times,  wrong more often than one would like,  dangerously wrong, messing up  our daily  lives, -- frustrating, --confusing our journey to  the "so called safer- richer - better  life",--  Or slipping us back to a time where we didn't  believe in germs. 10 years earlier we had no useful electricity (none).   
 

Example

Marie got  the  Noble prize In physics 1903,   Koch's in 1905 ,   in Physiology , for  work done in and around  germs causing diseases .  Few doctors held a held a similar personal sympathy  with the science of sterilization, yet germs were killing more people than wars.

On  the other hand Marie helped  start  a scientific war on cancers, killing them off with rays developed from her scientific work,

There was some  worrisome personal sympathies versus a scientific truth differences  that Marie, the scientist,  found with her recommended  use's of radium for public health it ended up being used by business in a dangerous salt form in mouth washes. (Ouch).
 ========================================================


Different differences differ
                                               
in our personal sympathies  versus  scientific truths.

Disagreeing with  Mother/Brother Nature can be and often is fun, but ? 

Nature He/She is the biggest  guy/gal in town.  Showing off their  magnificent  heavens her/his universe where one of its staple ingredients  are  wee tiny electrons,
electrons that are even now controlling  our bodies, our minds, our thoughts, our health, our existence, our non existence, our opinions. But few if any has  ever seen one without aiding the eye.

Rearrange a hand full of our electrons and one has or doesn't have cancer, is fat or skinny.  is blind or not, can think or not, think right or wrong. our opinions

Scientists (we have had many tastes of late  )  have just begun finding, and on some occasions showing us,   (with permission from the buyers of the scientists work), what the tip of Nature can do for us,  to us. 
One should wonder what Marie thought about this condition. Did it motivate her to remain silent, perhaps secretive? There is no hope? Did she at least leave a few tracks one could follow?

It is rumored   that science moves us toward  more tragic differences in 'sympathies than truths   increasing them day after day, some believe with little to no chance of reducing them. Can this be true?
It is said that some of these differences, are based on emotions, on guesses, that come from,-----  deep down  inside one,  where emotions push to overcome  reason 
with or without warning phrases like

"Stop and think? "--
"Lets back up and start over again?" 

Could each of the above  phrases , in some cases, be a bit late, a bit too late to effectively reverse one's opinion?.

What is the probability that an emotionally derived decision can cost  both worlds plenty in the quality and the  safety of all living things.
After all its just  electrons. doing their thing concurrently working together vigorously while repelling each other.
  
 

More

Scientists can and do a lot of
"
backing up and starting again" and again each time improving and enriching  their discoveries good, bad but indifferent and  Nature doesn't care who or how one  uses its laws.
Physical Scientist especially gifted  scientist  work constantly, continuously, refining,  debating, and discovering lots of niftily laws of nature in the process.


touch the picture to read the captions more clearly.

  That's their job. They get paid to do it. 

No,  Little,  Medium,  Big ,  Big helpful Secret? eh

Who owns the  scientist work? Who can use it. use is it free of charge? Can you buy it?

Those paying for a scientist's  work, the sponsor, completely owns, controls every  aspect of it, patent, copy rights, etc.. The  scientist cannot share, acknowledge working on  the sponsors project  without permission It's the sponsors money, their time. Marie was well aware of this but apparently did not share, volunteer, emphasis this as valuable part of the educational aspect of science . Why would she hide this

Science not the  scientist is expensive. Scientist get paid to do it right. They are judged by the quality of their work, if poor they'll certainly be replace, not used again, by sponsors and colleagues constantly checking each other. If one or a team screw up. There is always another's prepared and eager  to step in to  "do it right".

This absolute process maybe vaguely, or not so vaguely  recognized by most  to be true (enough) to give it credence.   This rigorous process maybe one of  the stony secret Marie keeps to herself, from experience, that is she simply gave up dwelling on it.

Contrast

There  are comments generated somewhere, maybe through the  public ad media, referring to the process of scientific of debate as "WAFFLING" waffling. Sounds more like put down tactics used  by someone or organization unhappy with some specific  scientific result that might be endangering the use of a  product. It's happened? Hmmmmmm?

The other side of the coin

To be a Scientist one finds, right off that the laws of Nature give no wiggle room for emotional conclusions. Natures laws are in terns of measurements of time, length, and mass. to make them useful, to give them useful muscle,  This is referred to in the trade as dimensional analysis.



 The Goddess of Time Length and Mass Rules the scientist's empirical work.

Even thoughts are beginning to be measured in these terms the terms of an  electronic  states measured in the mind.
(Remember that tiny electron. are we taking it to much  for granted, leaving our leaders help us decide our direction about this?    What was Marie's action about these decisions? Was this one of her secrets?

Nature does not give a hoot about whether one  feels good or not good about  its laws. Whether your dumb or smart, If your opinion is right or wrong, Nature does not answer even to heaven or hell,  nor to Great Leaders. It simply hangs around in the the world of time, length and mass doing its thing.
 



Thumbnail showing An enhanced photo of  the strain and suffering of discovery
Nature,  to its credit,  is not bashful sharing its laws. But like Marie and her daughter Irene both had a ruckus with Nature's laws of radiation by not  obey them while working with them and died prematurely slowly and painfully of radiation poisoning.
 

Question
Is this knowledge,  one of Marie's tools, a tool kept out of sight, kept secret  by others for fear of loosing their powers? Is it just one more of those conspiracy theories floating around? 

If your not there in the lab glued to your scientist, to his mind, how can one tell how truthful the work done  or to be done really is  or will be?

Question for those who fib just   a bit, now and then, just a little---  who doesn't eh? 
Why would one trust anyone , let alone trusting a scientist,  especially when the judge is a bit familiar with the art of  a little stretching, bending , of the truth, maybe just a bit when one can not  fluently speak the language of scientist  (mathematics) . Why would anyone of sound mind and body trust someone selling something of great value (maybe a discovery) and you cannot understand the sellers well enough to trust their translation from the seemingly mathematical and experimental gibberish?
 

An Example?

Some would say differences are happening in spite of the significant scientific progress made by  scientists like Marie and her oldest daughter Irène Joliot-Curie, who might also be privy to those secrets,   she looks even more reflective or sadder than her Mon in the above photo). Even with 3, yes three, Noble prizes  to their combined credit celebrating their pioneering work on the energy in the atom. Irene's work tipped the scale  suggesting that the atomic energy her mother discovered could  be used, re used, miss used as a weapon of aggression, a weapon of  protection,  both of interesting proportions or last but not least not a weapon at all but for the health of the public in treatment of cancer .

 

 
Irène Joliot-Curie like her mother
died prematurely -- radiation poisoning.

Both her mother and Irene worked toward solving the worlds problems using science as a tool''? Simple problems such as understanding  the proper use of  enormous forces  stored in the atom. Some Marie discovered, (with the simplest tools,---her hand and a good head.--- )  Others and later by her daughter, Irène  with less simple tools.--- (atomic bullets) and a good head.---.

================================================

Could this, or is it the secret of the ages and one that Marie has not openly shared, almost kept is kept secret.

====================================
SOS "Suffering Of Science"
Modern Science  was strongly started  by the Catholic church  and Galileo Galilei in about 1600's. Since then

our greatest Political leaders,
our greatest Business leaders,
our greatest Religious leaders,
our greatest Scientific leaders,

Have recognized that discoveries of science has given--- and can take from them
 
their greatest personal power,
their greatest personal reputation,
their greatest personal wealth
their greatest personnel contribution


The vast  majority of the world understands that most of their time is   spent following the leaders,   passively, willingly, or not, following  to hell, to heaven, just following as best one can with the time and resource permitted them.

As softly as possible , --- but very  important all of us ---, Half of us are dumber than the other half which is a draw back in making the best of  decisions, all around  Especially when our leader, leaders is, are very  charismatic,  robust, but mistaken eh.


What ever!----- It works. The world moves on! Humans multiply vigorously, live longer, provide more opportunities.

Could it become even better, safer, for most? Does Marie have the secret, a secret of secrets? If there is one it must be very, very, valuable, but only whispered to the greatest of the great leaders ? Followers need better hearing aids, better scientific hearing aids?

Could a secret  be something so simple, so  minor as a senior scientist working  24-7 on a research programs, making absolutely sure,  to get it right as possible with the available  recourses ? 

What's the big deal about this issue,  to any scientist's eh? Who cares about error here or there, so it could have be done better, so what. The world is not  coming to an end. eh?
Is this one of the common folks understanding of work in general and scientist's projects specifically? Can, should, one deduce  from Marie's work what she  felt about it. is it important, very important, extremely Important to all of us to any of us? hmmmmmm! Its just science isn't? Right?



Do or should  scientist's,  science teachers spend, need  enough,  time in their course work schedules on these obvious  issues, topics. What's the  possible answer-s    -------, the consequence?

Our persistent, lucky, gifted, hard working, determined, grad student Marie was the first to actually feel, recognized  the heat, coming  from her experimental samples was the sample of  the tremendous energy stored in the atom.   A beacon of energy for the world shaking (demonstration) of energy shining  toward and for   Einstein's E=MC2

 The world's most  dangerous school  girl ?


Her un-heralded  legacy?


 

Gross but true "eh"  The joys of the atom !!!!!!?
To be vaporized and have your very own atoms torn apart in  a split second decorating the sky like a mushroom or you can  be barbequed with millions of others for the following celebration by those left or  have more fun and joy  joining  the fascinating race for what some believe  to be a smart slow hot death from  the plants cherished molecule carbon dioxide.


======================================

To search or not to search for the secret that is the question?
 =====================================

is not just a question, but a play on  a play of words in  Hamlet by Shakespeare.  Appropriate in this case?

Note  the extraordinary introductory photo of Marie's hand.  

Maries hand, an extraordinary hand, a hand that wont be ignored. Is it a  rite. a rite being extended you, in a dish, a simple round bottom dish, a dish containing  a  garden, a beautiful garden, a garden of magic crystals.

What does it contain that she is holding it  so kindly, so gently that has so changed  our world, changed it  for ever.
Radium, Polonium look again? Closely ,hmmmm the secret?. when we take it, hold it its is warm, warmer than the surrounds. Its been warm for weeks. What have  you done young lady what is this witches brew you have cooked up? A brew that ultimately and dramatically shortens your daughter life.
 

First? beyond all the writing above about her radium her love life and more and more writing for the public's pleasure (or  the writers profit) what more conceivable value is Marie or her work to us today? What more can she say or do?

Would  she be hiding  her secrets from us? What, where Why?

 

So the Bottom Line? ----- The question arises.-- Why bother with her at all if she wont share her secrets? Is she just  history in today's flood gates of scientific discoveries which are wider,  drowning her image?

Is she still or was she ever a teaching tool, a symbol of hope,   a symbol of work hard and even if you're a girl you to can become a champion,  a hero? Is that enough? ---- Is that enough just being a hero, a worshiping symbol, a  fad, from  fad-ing old images and there are so many of them but seldom smiling???

 

Certainly  her name and her work are still  making money and reputations for hard working entrepreneurs   by using it as an advertising gimmick to attract customers to their web sites,  and businesses selling things totally unrelated to Marie or her work this has always has been true. Interpreters  riding on Marie's petty coats to sell mouth wash products spiked with radium salts. Radium coated dials for watches etc..

 

This seems to be helpful. Maybe she may not be completely dead yet. Yet  in  the eyes of some ?
 

But AND JUST BUT is it just barely conceivable that she might just have  one more secret, maybe two, that has been lost or overlooked, ignored, or just hidden.   Even one secret that could have considerable value if it is shared with us,  each of us?

A secret that she apparently shared only with her oldest daughter who used it to win a Nobel prize of her own in similar research!

A secret that we can understand ,cheap enough to be affordable,  fast enough to gain the better life. What is it Marie, what is it? Can we guess? Share with us more clues.

If there is such  a secret   could it have been lost in the great noise generated by the joy of scientist and science teachers teaching the scientific method. teaching it  with the great gusto to all?  (In many regions of the world there is the for  law teaching  some science, some believing  it's that important) ? Could their be   some worry among a few, very few,  scientist and  teachers of science that if there is a secret it is  not reaching the bigger share  of their customers, their students of general knowledge.  Maybe, just maybe through their excitement, their enthusiasm for the  scientific world it has become nothing more than   just so much noise to  the other world's daily experiences eh?   Or maybe the scientists and their teachers are not  sounding their joy of scientific principals and jargon with big  enough trumpets  which could be heralding` Marie' s secrets louder ( if there were or are any).

Secret; So  where is it? What is it ? Can it ever be found ? Is it in her instruments? Her note books in a secret code? Beyond  pawing just through words, even technical words?


Can one chose a different mode of searching for it or them?

 

 

Pictures what about  pictures? It is said  that a single picture is  worth  a thousand word. So can we take  several  pictures to  test them to see if one can find the secret?  Put on  your  Sherlock Holmes detective hat pull out your magnifying glass  and strap on  your safety belt and let's see what one can deduce about her world of science compared to the other world, the one we live in.  From the  first picture above one might see a seemingly  provocative almost sexy young lady and her super simple scientific equipment, a couple pieces of glass.


========================================

First let us set the stage for this top picture. Which includes some of her instrument.
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-----This young woman, Marie Curie, née Maria Salomea Skłodowska,  is in her laboratory --- apparently  looking at the spout of her  seemly mundane,  unheralded,  but  indispensable scientific instrument, her  wash bottle. . This simple instrument was primitive in appearance and common to most chemlabs of that day. By blowing into It produced  a small precisely  controlled jet  of water or other solvents to a  small but prize crystal in the garden of crystals (the sample). Will this instrument help in finding  Marie' secret?  It might  be in the right direction.

Second;   Note  Marie's  samples were contained in simple round bottom stile watch glasses or porcelain dishes similar to the one she is holding in her left hand the right holds the simple wash bottle while she is separating the good from the unwanted chemicals with a simple stream of water. She used hundreds of these during her almost 3year search  and purification project for radioactive chemicals. Her liquid samples in the dishes transformed themselves by evaporation  of a liquid into  gardens, of crystals    that grew into concentric circles of great beauty, and  things of great danger.


A short relevant stop .

to give a relevant example of a secret about a media reporting an important scientific event? Which of the pictures below  spins a more likely story about Maries laboratory experiment, an experimental procedure a child could be trained do. What if the equipment shown  is  not germane to the researcher's work  is this a proper thing to accept In  important research reported to the public? Should we ask,
search from dearest Marie Curie, née Maria Salomea Skłodowska answer ?


Above a posed photo for the press (likely)? But at least it shows what equipment Marie thought was the most important. Her famous wash bottle and disk of crystals. Simple equipment but very very important equipment that has a awesome simple story to tell.


Yet a typical, simple communication oversight ?

On the other hand  the beautiful painting on the left, (a posed painting yes). But the artist or who ever ask it be done didn't get the simplest, the most important parts right or was some one trying to make Marie a fool in the chemistry world? 

Most of the bottles appear empty the one she is holding up with her right hand looks to have copper sulfate in it an unlikely  ingredient for her to be concentrating so intensely on.

 

Then so what then hmmmmmm

Could some of the work of scientist being relayed  by second, third, forth, etc. hand sources  have the same interesting characteristics thus the scientist didn't get the true importance of their discoveries transferred to the general public in a healthy form. Could part of this be an explanation to raise.  What would Marie say about this question? Would that be a secret?

Just as it was pointed out earlier read it one more time?

 "The truths of the world's personal sympathies and scientific truths differ in kind"?

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With a bit of patience's lets  look  a little bit more into her simple equipment her simple methods used  for her far reaching discoveries of the enormous energy stored in the atom but most of all  a way of life, a way to form an important opinion for about scientific discoveries
The answer as to whether she is hiding something from us or not or just didn't give a damn.
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there was her radiation detector based on the simplest concept that radiation made air conduct electricity the more the radiation the more the conduction  of  electricity.

She  measured how well it did this  for  the air surrounding her  garden (sample) by simply noting the time it took for a specific charge of electrons to pass  between two metal  plates which were sandwiching the radioactive garden (sample).  This sandwich was given the noble name "The Ionization Chamber". Connected to it was a simple device ,( a sort of meter ), to measure the remaining charge to be conducted. is Marie secrets hidden in there?

    In the beginning it was called a voltmeter, (after its inventor Volta who played around with frogs), that checked on the amount of the charge left to pass through the sandwich (the ionization chamber). This device , the voltmeter, could and has been a short length of string doubled on itself . Fancy  it up a bit by replacing the string with   a strip of gold foil it was now call it gold leaf electrometer). Sort of connect two of these together in the same box now you can rename it a quadrant electrometer. hopefully the point is made, Call it what you like, it still measure the charge left in the sandwich using the this technique. Of course the key tool for measuring the level of radiation of Marie's garden (sample) was the clock, which could have been a rock tied to a short length of string the lot being called a pendulum. Counting the swings gives the time lapsing    during the charge transfer thus level of radiation  for her beautiful garden (sample). Marie or Pierre chose to use a stop watch.

 These  simple,  but casual,  laboratory instruments  were  her constant companions for  almost three year of her life during her  search   and purification of  radioactive elements and her pursuit of a doctorates degree in physics.

 

 

Her  fingers, yes, what about her fingers, most everyone has some? According to the many stories told  about the detective  Sherlock Holmes' skills was that he could give  a super detailed account  of  anyone's  life by studying  their  hands.

 

Dare  we  study  Marie's hands. fingers there is no evidence of jewelry,  manicures, just those chemically stained, radiation burned, hands, yet delicate touching fingers.  Will this give a clue to a possible secret she maybe be hiding?
 

Photo below; Marie's hand cradling a   beautiful  garden of  crystals formed in a  round bottom dish. Note some crystals are cubes, some have formed  and malformed into  more complicated configuration. telling us  that Marie's  sample was a mixture of different  compounds, different crystals. Marie was carefully    separated these crystals by a fancy named process called "fractional crystallization". It is  simply letting a solution in a round bottom dish slowly evaporate  forming  this slick garden. But, But  notice her hand. She is touching, almost caressing the dish containing her sample, carefully  using  her bare hands.

This touching, this simple act of touching  led to one of  the most profound discoveries by science of all times,  The most dangerous.

 Her dish, her garden, grew more than pretty crystals metaphorically it grew  the buds of our future, our orchids, our poison ivy,  our rice our poppies.

Click on the picture below to get a larger view of a beautiful award wining secret garden .You, your self  can grow one  using simple  chemicals salt sugar etc. She used   mixtures including radioactive chemicals to separate them.

Click on the picture  to make it bigger and more beautiful.

Marie dissolved her samples containing the unknown material with its  impurities into solution. This was  stored in  round bottom containers like a watch glasses or porcelain dishes. As  the  liquid slowly evaporated crystal slowly   grew   into concentric  rings of crystals  dividing themselves by  their degree of solubility. Notice Marie was carrying around the dishes using her bare hands,  Important. Note, as the samples became more concentrated with the radioactive element her hands  got more radiation burns and the samples became and stayed  warmer and warmer and  would not cool down to room temperature. Hmmmm?    Hmmmm?

Her simple tool, the wash bottle, she used for separating  the good from the bad  crystals in her garden. The photo is a bit on the dark and ominous side ? It was not planed this way by the authors. It  just turned out to be this  way.. Is this one of Maries dark secrets?

The  simple traditional wash bottle was used to sort out  the  desired crystals  from the mix. The squirt from the wash bottle  was directed very precisely  to a very fine well defined set of crystals in the dish.  This helped to extracted these crystals  by washing them out of the rest  in the dish, carefully  washing them into another container. Thus separating the wanted material  from its impurities. This was a very slow process. because the solubility's were not very different so this garden of crystals  had to be treated with great care.
 

Simple, Simple, Simple but not simple to everyone.


The voltage read by the strings is related to how far they are spread apart, the angle separating them. The large the angle the greater the voltage, the greater the spread, being measured. It was this voltage, the amount of spread, that told Marie when to turn on her clock and when to turn it off giving the measurement of the magnitude of the radiation from her garden of crystals.

The sample to be measured for radioactivity is put between two insulated metal plates that are charge with  electrons (remember those tiny little electrons mentioned above) -from  some source such as a battery , electrostatic generator,  a comb stroking some long beautiful hair, etc... The magnitude of the voltage caused by this charge is not critical over a substantial voltage range. The spread of the string is a measure of the voltage. The larger the spread the larger the voltage. The clock , stop watch, is started and left running until the voltage measured  with the spread drops to a predetermined fraction of the starting voltage, spread. The time to do this   represents the magnitude of the radiation. coming from the sample.  A number of elements like piezo devices are added to  increase the readability of the time to a higher precision but they were error prone if they added or subtracted extra charge in the ionization chamber.

But let us get back the top picture of Marie's face. The spout of her wash bottle seems to be  bisecting it into two different people,  maybe two different worlds,  like  the Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?

 (We all have a little of this (J.H.) in us.) .

 

 Her face  is divided into two moods, one bright with cautious joy  the other  dark, sad,  maybe concerned? But why the sad look .Was her companion the wash bottle acting up, its nozzle clogged maybe slowing down her research? Wasn't she doing what she wanted to do? With this look  would she be a kindly person  dedicated to the peaceful and gentle  causes?
 

1st deduction; Common sense may tell us that she may be simply checking  to see  that the spout of her wash bottle is clean, clean as possible for her delicate experiments and there might have been some foreign substance in it fouling up the results? It could than show that she was a careful researcher.

 

Or 2nd perhaps she is looking at someone through and beyond the wash bottle with an  almost inviting  Pixie  look, maybe inviting a date with  the lab director ( Pierre) with designs to trap him into marriage. Perhaps it is both?
  

LAST There is a third possibility. Mood? Perhaps it is because she is suffering from bipolar syndrome disorder caused by the strain of living in two worlds in one earth. If so which world is giving her  the most worrisome time? Than there is Irene her daughter another scientist in the same field.  both sides of her face show sadness, contemplation? Is it a family DNA trait or living under the same  strain of two world circumstances?


 

Lets examine the latter condition because of the experiences   that scientists get into while trying to live full lives in both worlds. They  build up Intense experiences not often shared in many other professions,  common well populated professions. But how is one to know the measured truths of this statement  if one has not been  a productive senior scientist  for several years and is surrounded by other scientist all constrained to prove their beliefs or be out of work,  ignored.


 

This explanation may have a chance at finding the secret.  Maybe  the first step into the discovery and exploration of the one earth but  two world's concept could be a key to Marie's secret or secrets?

 

There maybe some strong supporting evidence to help us  understand the concept of living on one earth two worlds. The two world's one earth model is described by a best known  and eminently successful scientist, Einstein, who speaks for himself both in a speech and in a picture worth a thousand words. It  might be showing  us that he may be in on one of Marie's secrets  and he is about  to share it with us? This picture is of him in one of his darkest moments when he was traveling   through the  outside world. His speech  compares the  two worlds   from a scientist's perspective  at a birthday party for another famous scientist Max Planck.

 

Hi Doctor Einstein how is it going?


 

 He replies
“One of the strongest motives that leads men to art and science is escape from everyday life with its share of painful crudeness and hopeless dreariness. Such men make this  cosmos and its construction the pivot of their emotional life in order to find the peace and security they cannot find in a narrow whirlpool of personal experience."


 

It may seem a  bit over  extended for some.......but some one once said " Try being a scientist in an average  senior position for at least a  year then pass on your feelings".

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What was Marie's life or most any research workers life in real time? Real Real time hour by hour? can we find the secret here?

Is it mostly boring, really boring. Does  it have  to few anxious moments,  lots of anxious moments,  is it  too boring to dwell  on in literature which is aimed at the public for their entertainment or is just a careful guarded secret?

The top or first  photo of Marie was taken about the time of  her most really important discovery.  A discovery of all times. The one that she is  not given much if any credit for today, At the time of the discovery  the scientific world recognized it and used it to forecast  its  ominously, the enormity of its  importance   to all living things. Her discovery  sparked and seeded the reputation of dozens of the  scientist  of the day who  themselves were given much credit from  using it  to expand their work on the atoms structure and to  those who in the future still use It. Like  her daughter, who she help train in the same field,  which  gave  the opportunity for  her daughter to also   win  a noble prize of her on in the same field.

The now famous equation e=mc^2 that many have  heard or seen is a byproduct of Marie's work. It  helped  developed one of the most important fields of science, Nuclear Physics.

But what was this discovery? How did she make it ? Could this account for her  two moods?.  More than likely it could be the  inward contemplations of the enormous energy she found in atoms.  She discovered it during her work in radioactivity by using her experience in physics to interpret the observations  that her fingers were warmed by her   samples in the dish next to  the wash bottle. Her samples  were much warmer than the surrounds and they seem to be  perpetually  warm and getting warmer the higher the concentration of the unknown element she was purifying.

From Marie's knowledge of physics and her acute observational skills she knew that  this meant that there was enormous energy that must be stored in these tiny  atoms. An energy that was later carefully  and accurately measured by her best friend, her lover, and her husband  all in one " Pierre" who was aided by an assistant.  An energy that  could  be  used to destroy millions of living things or save millions of living things. Maybe the third deduction of her farcical expression of mixed emotions can be expanded to include the mixed results  of her  journey as a graduate student later continuing on as a senor scientist, the  raising a family in the other world that uses and misuse her work! always  living between these very different worlds. One world only has  a one way mirror as its window.

"Authors Note" Emotions are critical to our decision making process in life. Especially when we are not privileged to accurate data to make these decision sound. So emotions are very very important and are to be richly cultivated.

Back to the photo  symbolizing   her ever present wash bottle bisecting Marie face.  One side is bright, cautiously hopeful and the other dark and foreboding.  Look again at her photo  what else do you see in this photo?  A touch of blood on the edge of the dish?. The last but not the least deduction from looking at the photo of Marie is more of a question. Could  Marie be  hiding behind her instruments, from what, why?

These are just some of the questions that could be important to ask our selves   and get an answer by looking at her from a different perspective.  a Nobel prize winning young lady  who raised a Nobel prize winning daughter in  both of the  two worlds- two worlds-two worlds----.!

 


Marie Curies two worlds, what and where are they?  
Physical scientists see one earth but---- two worlds,    One they work in, one they live in. Scientist  work world is governed by the rules of nature  its population and physical size is very small, very strict, one is not allowed to live in it without following  exactly the  rules of nature. (Like the law of gravity). Most important  and for many practical reasons this world of the scientist  is virtually  invisible to the second world the one we all live in.

The second  world, vastly larger in physical size and population  the one we all live in, is governed by imagination, wishes and emotions.  Nature's  rules are only second in  command.
.
Madam Curie "Marie " to those who feel close to her) and other scientist   work in the world  of nature handling things humans  cannot  see without the aid of complex scientific instruments.  Instrument to the second world observers  that sometimes look  like a train wreck in spaghetti factory. Atoms,  parts of atoms, invisible electromagnetic forces, shorter than x-rays, which have been  just been and still will be  discovered.

 But she was also working in the second world of emotions, and a world of competition. However In science it is super competition.  The one who is right is the winner. The one who is right and first is a super winner. Your work is set permanently  in the halls of human achievements so scientists are always  driven  to get their  data and conclusion PUBLISHED  before someone else does. Their project  may take months, (like Marie's) even years of work  but ---but-- it also has to be done very carefully  to be sure it is al correct enough to be accepted by  competitors, your colleagues., and even  possibly by the  engineers who will be  using your work  for businesses purposes where they  automatically test your data by using it. In one way or another they will find all of  your discrepancies. To fail these tests  because of falsification you will be banned from the world of science. Everything you have done, your work,  your education, the work you have planned to do will be held with the strictness doubt and  disgust and it and you will be  avoided. Your former colleagues will resent you and your actions personally because you will have endangered their work, their  funding with your mistakes your  lies. 

Scientist are linked together by Natures  laws so aberrations always come to light and abhorred by all because affect all.

Einstein  compared the two worlds  by remarking at  celebration where he said “One of the strongest motives that leads men to art and science is escape from everyday life with its share of painful crudeness and hopeless dreariness. such men make this  cosmos and its construction the pivot of their emotional life in order find the peace and security they cannot find in a narrow whirlpool of personal experience."

The famous photograph below was taken some time  after two Atomic  Bombs were dropped, killing, burning and broiling untold thousands of  humans using Marie's discovery of nuclear energy and Einstein's  e=mc2..

What is this photo  below telling the world about  you and science  about scientists  reputation in the other world ?     Is this a secret? If it is who's secret is it?

 

So with this attitude can we ever penetrate this invisible world  of science with its secrets  so as to make it more useful to us in the second world?  Read on!

Back to Marie.

Question?  Who are the people that----------------->
Marie  left off  of her private secret science list?  -Are you one? ----- What secrets?----Where would they be hidden?---Why?

If disclosed would  they be a  disaster to our  business and religious power centers?  Would these secrets     change     our  way of life?  Have these secrets been camouflage to protected them by using unbreakable codes buried  in the  scientific equations, their mathematics,   or hidden in her instruments?

Can we get some clues from the data available to the public.  Most data  feeles that these data maybe clouded with errors, some intentionally manipulated for what ever purpose. Are the secrets in her instruments


The two photos and the circuit drawing below show high level scientists and engineers meeting with the director/producer of Mystery of Matter all surrounding Maries Piezo electric driver for her radiation electrometer ( the tall brass object sitting on a wood tripod table).  Everyone is  searching for Marie's  secrets in the instrument. The two worlds are working together to get it right (what ever right means) Was it just the planning stage of a business venture to sell  death ray war machines,  radioactive hot chemicals to poison an enemies water supplies?  Think of the plausible  opportunities for these two worlds. More simply it was how did Marie want the individual components  work together to explain it right.





Above Maries circuit and the physical layout for her ionization detector. The team, shown above,  have been on and off for weeks looking for the secrets in its complex operation.  It  seemed  filled with them. What are they?

Marie  is

very through in her work.  Were  these "secrets"   so obvious to her that she never intend them to be  secrets? Were they are really just  neglects on her part.  After all she was not perfect, even through one of the authors of this website absolutely  swears that  she was more than perfect.

 Let us look into Marie discoveries to see if its possible to  find  more of her secrets, if there are any.?

Her discoveries  happened impart  because she was at the right place,  the right time,  the right colleagues, and with the right instruments.  But she repeatedly demonstrated that she was sharp, determined, alert,  an extraordinary  sense of connections, native abilities, plus the  training  that one has to have  to function as a successful contributing research scientist to make these discoveries. She was  an  intellectually superior student that needed financial stability .



Marie was an attractive young women  with a good figure which can be seen from her photos. Some could say she was fetching.
Can we gleam any of Marie's secrets from this photo, From  the expression on Marie's face, her right arm  leading Pierre,  her fingers clenched, determined ? Her body straight,  shoulders back, head high, yet   suggestive little curls spilling down her forehead.  Does she look like the cat that just swallowed  the canary? Does Pierre  face look dazed?

 Did she trade on her willingness  virtues  for a husband who came  complete with a built in technical position, excellent equipment, connections for a  laboratory and the good sense to recognize  her scientific skills even though she was a woman. Did  It just seems to happen natures  way. or did it demonstrate the scientific skills such as showing  that she was a exceptional  science planner. which included getting funding for her scientific work? Was this one of the secrets?  Does it say  she is satisfied in gaining the   ability to do better and more science or that she can get a new vacuum cleaner? . Is this another of her secrets in doing science, in planning?

Did she try to repeat this strategy years after Pierre was tragically  killed in street accident? Instead was his death a conspiracy by a jealous scientist another  of Maries secrets?

Pictures and portraits of Marie seem to  help in  revealing valuable information about her, about science, about  scientists, about  her secrets?

In the photo to the left for example, notice  Marie's expression! Does she trust you or has she the  skepticism needed by scientist in their professional work?  How about  these "expressive fingers" .  The  ones that carried out all those crystallizations for the isolation of radium. They also led Marie to the discovery of the massive forces stored in the nucleus of atoms - a surprising  story of chance and opportunity. It released a technology wonderful on the one hand and fearful on the other when a few political leaders are left on their own.
These same hands guided  her x-ray truck to  care for the wounded solders of WWI.
Did she do this to just earn money for her research? does it make a difference? Did she learn first hand  the struggles of big business protecting their interest? Read on and see what you come up with to decide.

 
Nuclear energy had been hiding from man his whole life.
When Marie was working with her radium samples, her sensitive finger tips felt very weak heat signals. As part of her purifying processes Marie was  heating her samples to bring more solids into solution which were then poured into small dishes to cool and crystallize (note this equipment is shown in the first photo above) But some of her  samples never returned to room temperature There was heat being  generated by some unknown but powerful  source because these radioactive samples never cooled as chemicals do after reaction. Marie pondered "why" and "how"?  The answer from the scientist in Marie Curie was aided by her studies in the awesome laws of  thermodynamics. is one Maries secrets hiding in there?  These observation did spelled out "big time energy".  While Marie kept  emphasizing the chemical properties of radium, Pierre and a student measured the physical properties of these energies.  Is this more light on another of Marie's secrets? team work? individual jealousy? What is Marie's world really like, What are her secrets?

 

The physical expression of success on the bright side of her face, yet the other side is shadowed. Did the photographer see something more? Could this be a look of dark deep concern for how this enormous energy  might be used?  Even at her age Marie was not ignorant about the battles for energy in politics and war. Perhaps one should go back and look again  and think about Marie and her truck.  Perhaps reflect on her scientific ways. Are some of her secrets hidden here?

 

 

 


 

 

Above   one of the most important  instruments in the history of science.  One of two of Marie's original piezo electrometers used in her original surveys for materials of radioactivity. The pan just below the hand held weights to control the spot of light. Marie had to manipulate the weight to control the spot.
Marie's sensitive fingers were also a vital part of her radiation measuring devise which required very  precise control of the the light spot driven by the piezo electric instrument in the apparatus shone below. This almost sacred instrument  is  equivalent  in importance to Galileo original telescopes.
(Their is a  scientist in this photo that did not want to washed the tip of his finger for some time after touching Marie's piezo electrometers ever so gently).

What is this spot of light that gives marie a trans hypnotic stare, what is tugging at it ?

.  

 

 Authentic Marie  with her magic fingers on the stop watch and intently watching that little spot of light  shown on the scale directly in front of her  trying to keep it right on zero. The  beautiful replica of  Marie staring at the all important spot of light..

Marie motivation for  working  exceptionally hard as all scientist do to get  their data and its interpretation right. Scientists are the final judges and juries for each other's work because they use and consequently  test each other's results in their own work. If yours is wrong because of faulty work  they quickly spread the word around about your dangerous incompetence.  I this one of Maries secrets?

A reminder.
 Is Einstein, one of Marie's colleagues letting  Marie's secret out of the bag,    in a speech he made at fellow  scientist's birthday party where he said-----

 

 “One of the strongest motives that leads men to art and science is escape from everyday life with its share of painful crudeness and hopeless dreariness. such men make this  cosmos and its construction the pivot of their emotional life in order find the peace and security they cannot find in a narrow whirlpool of personal experience."   Einstein

 

It's very hard work  getting into science but easy to be dismissed for fraud.---- A job in science never was and never will be one  without serious consequence, for all,  from bad work.  Scientist can lose their job after enormous work getting it. Is this one of Maries secrets? 

.The average person can lose their   reputation with white lies and be labeled  something but  still can  get on with their life and friends. In science  no matter what ever your  personal quirks may be your reputation in science is your life. Is this one of Marie's secrets?

Back to Marie ;her data her observations were right and nuclear energy did start a vigorous rush to exploit this energy and this has  affected the future of all living things.

That spot of light; ..... Every time it drifted from zero it cause an  error in her measurement. So the quality of  her work  counted  on keeping  it at zero.  But what were the demons dragging it off zero. They were invisible. Some times they would appear over night.

We can see if we stop for a minute and ponder a bit about these simple images of  Marie. She was much more than radium. She was a beacon of science. She was a beacon of caring behavior.
All of these attributes captured the love and affection of many fledglings of science. They read books about her, saw movies about her life, her discoveries and admired and loved her.

One of these fledgling scientists firmly believes that he learned much from  Marie's secrets. One of your co-author of this web site,  has carried this awe all his life and did well by it. Jim and Rhoda  not only had the privilege of making the replicas of her instruments and giving the technical advise that goes with them for a film,  The Mystery of Matter, but Jim also got a great big hug from Marie Curie, at least a wonderful replica of her played by the beautiful actress Juliet Rylance in the up coming film The Mystery of Matter,
a national science foundation sponsored  project.

 

Science has its twists and turns and some times it's the little thing that mean so much. a finger, a selection of material etc. etc. It always seems to cross its  path checking its self on the way. Below is a little relevant example of one such crossing. Can Maries secrets to be learned by tracking another scientist work experience, instruments techniques? That has direct bearing on Marie's secrets?

Which helps touch base on another science that had the seed of spectroscopy in it but not devolved. until the 1860's. Marie was required to use it to validate her discover of radium.

Galileo was more than telescopes.   He began a new approach to doing science - a far better way of getting into the secrets of nature - by making conclusions based on observations and measurements. He  was a part of the change in our society allowing  freer exchange of ideas and  solid investigations of  how our all powerful nature works.



Galileo  great discovery was not  hunting for hidden secrets of science with his development of the high powered telescope.  He was  simply expanding  his business of supplying instrument of war to the military.  By chance he was relaxing on his veranda with his new telescope when he made his stupendous discoveries that change the world from looking at the nature  through a dimensionless philosophic window.  To one of physical measurements and equations.  He was one of the pioneers of modern science.  which changed our world of perception opening all we know about nature now.

The magic Genie in a crystal. Genie is  invisible until you see it.

 --Quartz--- Galileo used his telescope to look up into the vast heavens to study the visible radiation from planets and stars in a universe of enormous proportions.  Marie with her radiation detecting apparatus looked down into the the miniature universe of elements and atoms to study  the mysterious radiation given off by substances still unknown. Each instrument Galileo's telescope and Marie piezo electrometer  had a common essential component in it.

 ---Quartz---

 Galileo's quartz was in a  fused form with a touch of iron in it. They called it glass.  From it  he made lenses to focus  light ( radiation ).

Marie Quartz was  in its pure crystalline form  which was configured into a thin flat slices of crystal  to focus  piezo electric fields in her instruments to track the radiation from radioactivity.

 

The authors have a passion for spectroscopy having used it for much of their research work. We could  not pass up on the opportunity to borrow two of  the replica's we made for the  Galileo museum in Florence Italy.. The beast worked clearly showing the Fraunhofer  lines in the sun.

Back to the heat  that  she felt with  her fingers. It was more than just  tell tail evidence of the enormous energies in the atom. Galileo  200 years earlier was tinkering with thermometers which was one of the starts Marie needed in her work.   Pierre,  Marie's colleague, friend, and  husband  measured this energy in one of his calorimeters and published it . This was a notable contribution because  E=MC2 . had  not invented yet by Einstein.  Marie and Pierre work must have helped  Einstein think seriously about energy. Marie and Einstein  were friends and on the same team like all scientist are on the same team. You can see her in amongst the boys she is all but surrounded by the best at the time. Another photo showing  how important her work was to the community See photo at the end of this website of the 1911-Solvay Conference

She gave this is  to the  most beautiful---- museum  we thank them for letting us visit and take this picture of it  to support this NSF project

With your patients we end this little tribute and share with you  a short little poem by a friend  about Maria. and we will get on with the apparatus and ----A discussion of the procedures and emotional issues Marie had to follow in getting her radium.
 
MADAME CURIE by Larry Keegan
no lovely lady
should hold this power
in her hand
she felt the very fire
of the universe in her fingertips
a warm tremor that
could not be explained

how the world was structured
we did not know
a lovely lady
should not tell us
of the nucleus
of all things

she had not heard of Hiroshima
or Chernobyl
or a beam that radiates
and cured my cancer

lady scientist
in the chambers of time
you will select for us
those substances
contain this secret
source of fire
oh Marie
oh Marie
unstable nucleus in your hand

You study the electrostatic
see which
substances contain
the unidentified stream
emissions

tell us lady scientist
in science's murky past
which elements radiate

no lovely lady should hold
this power
please tell us, lady
which elements

as you walk towards us
hands folded cup-like
in an offertory
almost a liturgy

bring us the power
cascading from
the alchemy of stars
   

Notes and points  to fix expand  get across
 
below is our Marie  as she is aging into her final   years still fighting  the battle of getting it right. She carries her scars  of hard work and devotion  proudly. May we  follow the best of her examples.  Did you notice   -- Marie's hand and fingers,  that did so much for science, still reaching out beckoning for the truth as she did with her instruments. This is what  the profession science is really about. "dedication to the truth of your work".

The benefits of basic research are vital to  each of us  and our communities. We need more of it and  insulated from the  basic power center's mistakes. It could help us  more to understand emotionally  not only  technically   the nature of how sciences gets the what, how, and why of nature forces rules right. It would help to understand  a little bit how it is controlled by its  financial sponsors so that we can help them through the decision they have to make to protect "our" business.


Photo on left Maries up turned hand. her fingers that brought us into the nuclear world are still at work,----Hard work!
The tension of her neck muscles, shoulders and head tipped to stress her point. Here is a senior scientist, still productive, still, hard at work with her example still before us. Let us hope Her example of scientists in the world of science can be made more visible in the very large world of ( imagination and wishes world (I & W) world.
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Marie's nuclear energy is not bad it just has to be understood.
 Our carbon dioxide is not bad it just has to be understood.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Scientist have dedicated their profession, their jobs, their lives, toward understanding nature.

One of the most important job that scientist need to understand is how to help their customers, you, to understand the process of understanding the correct versus the not correct answers when one can't see nature first hand  through the instruments that scientist  see nature  for what it is rather than what one wants it to be.

Through this some what  emotional window we offer  a rare opportunity to view  and experience in a detailed way replication and operation of Marie's instruments, instruments  that she would have toiled and fussed over in her studies on radioactivity and her discovery of the power of the nucleus.  In the somewhat chaotic text that follows.

This web site hopes in some small way to presents not just science and Maries personal life but  we hope help the reader  see, learn  in an emotional way the true environment that scientist work in.  The the enormance pressure of their fellow scientist put on each other to do a proper job,  to get the work right.....If we can give the reader a true gut feeling of this type of understanding of the dogged determination and some of the smartness needed by scientists to get their data, their conclusions and products as right as possible with the resources afforded them we hope it help the individual get more from the scientific community than one does today.  As with Marie, the drive is mostly a determined curiosity, but it yields in some unplanned ways, how science returns on your investment for a better chance at a better life for all of us.

This site has been created for your consideration  by  Jim & Rhoda Morris  K1ugm@comcast.net  781 245 2897  http://www.scitechantiques.com/

Her instruments,  have a  look at them and the authors replicating them.
Her Operating the detector
Her chemistry,  see the tedious crystallization experiments she ran to isolate and purify radium salts  
Her professional life, typically dull dull repetitive kind of work,
The murky world of funding your basic research work




Marie & Pierre Curie and Rhoda  & Jim Morris  Scientists themselves.
How close can one get in checking out other scientists project?

 

Our almost  science fiction story  but with real  jump in time and space. of  about  100 years. The most unusual  difference between the photo above and below. is not so much that there are  two different science teams, and   two  husband and wife science teams,  but a more  very real common denominator, that is, one is reproducing as exactly as reasonably  possible  the work,  the instruments, of the other,  both in  the cause of science.
 

 

Point  one; Take a look at just one of the most nerve racking, boring things  Marie had to do during her daily enrichment ritual to get her radium.  of staring  intently at the little ball of light on the glass scale in front of her  struggling to keep it  at zero.   by shifting a weight  on a pan under her piezo device. It ranged from  a few seconds to  minutes. This  time was a measure of the degree of radioactivity of her sample. That time  that went by was super important to her. It told her how successful her  purification of radium was going .  The shorter the better the purification was.

Few of us have to be reminded how much the products of science have affected the daily, and extraordinary times in our lives. They're obvious and naturally taken for granted.

What's not obvious: is it safe in basic research science's progress to take for  grant length of time to do it ?? Many of our basic personal problems still need  basic scientific research if they are to be solved. Lower:  health care costs,  educational costs,   better employment opportunities,  population growth , global climate threats, add yours to the list. Science through basic research, as in the past (as Marie Curie did) will be the active partner in the solutions' that give each of us a better quality of life. The time to get solutions  is strongly dependant on the  other team users. How can we tell how our team is doing.  

But to deal with all of this we need to know more about how the work of science is done; what their work life is really like; the factors that dictate the reliability of their work; and we don't really have to study scientific topics like the scientists do. With this knowledge we can go about our own business but make sure that the scientists are working on our problem
Translating  scientific work from the tech world to the  non tech world  has few alternative than using the  murky   world of Eight Parts of Speech especially in the dangerous villages of  adjectives and adverbs. Scientist improved progress by jumping pass  this murky communication world of language  and created one of numbers and mathematical  equation of time length and mass operation and symbols  where ther is better nt perfect means of spelling  out the laws of nature. 

How about learning how discoveries are made, understood and proved and how . Learning these things are more important and require less work and time than you are spending now sweating science and math tests.  Ask your school to teach you what you need to make sure scientists are working on your projects.

Goal: at the mention of the word science  there will be an enormous rush of dopamine dumped into your system.

Goal: at the mention of the eight parts speech there will be enormous rush of adrenalin into your system.

But First !

 A little known discovery of big proportions

Marie Curie was not just a star in the discovery department She was a super star. Her early work was  before the famous equation  "E=MC^2" was generated and before the scientist had a clear view of the atom. Here is a bit of the inside story; of what the authors believe was Her greatest discovery.

Her hard work,  Her keen scientific perceptiveness. Her shear persistence, being at the right place right time. Marie  was the first to discover the enormous amount of energy contained in  the atom. She found this during her researches in radioactivity. Marie made this discovery using her finger tips plus guidance from her radiation detector, but most important her determination, skill for scientific deduction from observables. These authors ever wonder  why  most writers - hailing Marie -  flip past this discovery at best hinting at it? Just radium, radium and more radium? At this point in time with hind site in science there was nothing more important, more dramatic, more spectacular than this discovery of  atomic energy  generating  the biggest  scientific explosion ever in human history.  A lack of drama?  A lack of public interest? We don't know.  Do you? One of Marie's co-scientist did remark (summed up in one of these authors words),

Leave it to some damn woman to discover and advertise the knowledge of such enormous power.  Rutherford?
 


Marie knew the scientific importance   of what she had discovered - but -   being a generous person gave away her financial rights to the public of refining the ore to get radium..


Marie knew first hand about war. She volunteered, during ww1, her service to France and drove an x-ray equipped truck to help care for the wounded. Marie was there servicing first hand the wounded.

 

 

 

 

 

It is not what scientists discover it's who and what others use it for.

This point of view is important enough to run through it again. Her discoveries of
Polonium and Radium paled by comparison. to her most important discovery-- the enormous power within the atom. Her simple observation was that her radium enriched samples were  warmer  to the touch than the ones with less or no radium and she recognized  that the source of this heat was many, many times that which could be generated by any chemical reaction. So before she was finished with her work with radium, Marie had ushered us into the  very wonderful and dangerous world of nuclear energy . Not only was there the alpha, beta, and gamma rays given off by radium and its family there was  -a  seemly-  unlimited thermal energy being generated according to Einstein's  famous  yet to be discovered equation .---> E=MC^2  <- was hinted at  experimentally by Marie before Einstein invented his formula.
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This web site is  special ; by  giving intimate  pictures of the interior as well as the exterior  of Marie's equipment,  her chemistry, her resolve. We show  the details of our process of  replication  of Maries equipment and experiment for a NSF documentary.

Accented is Marie's radiation detector which is  a story in itself which demonstrates  how many science discoveries really come about- \\ That is through a  of  chain of  scientific  instruments each born after weeks, years and centuries of earlier scientific investigations, blended together into Marie's and Pierre's sophisticate  famous  detector. coupled with the chemically stained  fingers of a young, beautiful, serious minded woman, led to  an  unheralded yet deeply shocking  discovery of nuclear energy and incidentally  the atom bomb.

Look and listen  carefully to Marie experiences! Try it if you haven't. One might get lucky and  almost feel and experience  of what it is like  to be a typical yet lucky scientist.
 -Concentrate hard enough to feel  Marie  sending us these very important emotional messages, feelings  about how science and scientist work.    To some Marie's message  maybe in  clear view but also  invisible because it may be so obvious.  Obvious? But obvious is not always obvious.  Had Marie ignored the sleight difference in warmth on her chemically stained, trained,  fingers touching her samples someone else would have discovered the immense power in the atom. Science  gropes  along piece by piece waiting  for the accidental scientist to come along and discover almost by accident something great and wonderful.
Stop----Look at your fingers .
They're not just fingers they are scientific instruments.  fingers can count, measure mass, radiant heat, texture,  read  information in  brail,  measure length,  sense time, via rhythm, acceleration, on and on. connect this to a  sense of logic  and  inquiry,  speaks for itself to everyone but especially to the trained scientist. This plus  tenacity leads to scientific discoveries. Marie discovery demonstrates this process.

Yes Marie is  a popular  scientist  but for many reasons - some obvious - some not  scientific. Marie's fame carries with it  messages of considerable value some  hidden   by the drama of romance of  a young couple  in love each sharing their love of the sciences only to be separated by a tragic accident to Pierre. by the drama, of Maries as a "'female" scientist, a rounded scientist founding intuitions, doing war work for her adopted country and last not least  her scientific work.

Marie is even more extraordinary today from her example. She still works busily in science for science. She is still a handsome intense  ageless creature which seldom if ever smiles  . Haven't you noticed and she has not changed much   ?  Marie has not been as successful in her present  role, as an example, as she was with her radium. But them again  like her discovery of the energy stored in the atom is  not being heralded enough.   Her extraordinary message to the non-science public seems to be  coming across like a  lead balloon. Lead being  near the final element in the uranium radium decay chain.

The single most important messages. She was not only a beacon of science. She was a beacon of caring behavior.
 Marie whispering to the non-science world  although that is  right in front of our faces but like her fingers we do not see them or hear it. Her message maybe too close, to obvious, not interesting, exciting, nor a money maker enough to spend much  time on it.   For those  trying to help Marie get her message across they must sense the lack of emotional appeal of the message  much like Marie might have felt when she was confronted with a couple of tons of rock  and dirt called pitchblende dumped into the yard of her shed. It was  not clear that Marie sensed  that this ton of dirt only had  a tiny almost a speck of radium in it but as time pressed on Marie pressed on   spending years to get at it. 

Step one in getting at Marie's  secret message. " To be contributing a scientist one  need to be close  to insane with persistence not just brilliance " and this is generally true for most all science projects.

Another part of the - hidden not so hidden -message is the ho hum-ness of  a typical experimental scientist day. To truly understand the scientist environment the  observer  needs to get inside the scientist's brain.  But than what?. This invisible world of science is walled in by language barriers  of infinite height and length hiding the real reason scientist seldom corrupt their data. if your not one of them If one has not experienced being a scientist how can one feel the  ethical force that is  as strong in a relative sense  as the hidden forces in the atom  Neither of which are  visible to the non science world.

Because we do not hear enough of Marie's message we lose much of the truly civilized value of our scientific discoveries and its because of the wall. Would it not be wonderful if we could climb over the wall and reclaim what is rightly ours.   Another part of Marie's secret message "understanding the enormous emotional force stressing  scientist into getting it right". This is only part of the hidden message. Obvious, not Obvious! So onward Marie  keep telling  more of your story A story that helps us understand the science we don't understand that we need to understand emotiomaly.

The authors will try  in a very small way to help you experience what being  an experimental scientist for a day is like. maybe when your are inside of the wall you will sense the ethical force for your self.  At least you will see behind the scenes detail of scientist and film makers working together to give you a best view of dealing with a scientific topic. 

Last  but not least in the near future we will be  furnishing  the reader with a little poetry; touching, surrealistic,  quaint, tender maybe foolish love story about Marie never disclosed before.
781 245 2897     Jim & Rhoda Morris       K1ugm@comcast.net      Main web site  SciTechAntiques.com

We need  our teachers of science help us  better understand the diabolical aspects of  Nature which is often reversed to our common sense understandings Examples Galileo 's lenses,.
teaching  how our scientist get it rSight more than  the  obtuse complexities of  math and principles  of science

 

Making a movie in search of Marie's secret which seem to be  a secret  held by many scientist?

The Mystery of Matter

and a little spot of light
by Jim & Rhoda Morris
A national science foundation sponsored  project.


figure1

Stephen E. Lyons Project Director The Mystery of Matter:  Search for the Elements and Rhoda Morris one of the technical advisers on this project. working out some of the details of the replication of the apparatus Marie used to measure the radiation levels in her discovery of radium. A national science foundation sponsored  project.

 


In the beginning  God said Let there be light----Marie Curie took God up on this gift and dedicated  her life to watching  just a little spot of light.

______________________________________________________________________
This web page  cast a stronger light  on Marie , than the  spot from her instrument ,  hopefully showing how hard she and fellow scientist work to get their research results right.  Readers can experience  much  of the tedium,  frustration,  elation,   personal relation ship with their instruments and  the highbrow discrimination in Scientific discovery that most scientist especially Marie experienced. 


Figure 2

1/23/2013

 

Would you believe some people think that the typical work day for a scientist boarders on the "thrilling, exciting, and dramatic? Read on and think twice

 

TRY VERY VERY HARD to imagine yourself as a scientist (maybe Marie Curie)  sitting in front of this dismal little spot of light for hours of tedious experimenting. ------ Your goal is to measure the radioactivity of a substances with a super delicate set of instruments making up the apparatus.  One of the steps is to keep that nervous little light spot from moving off zero, "0" on the meter scale.  With one hand in an awkward position you slowly lift a weight that controls the position of the spot of light while the thumb of your other hand is poised to click the top button of a stop watch to record the exact second you lose control of that damn little spot.  Next you log the time, the date, the sample description, etc., in your journal.  You repeat this  process again and again, sample after sample, day after day, month after month, year after year.

 

Marie spent some 3 years making these measurements.  Between these sessions she stirred pots of dangerous chemicals, filtered solutions, performed fractional crystallizations, purifying and purifying again and again, repeating the same processes thousands of times.  Imagine yourself working nearly 24/7,  fussing with mysterious radiation burns on your body, working in a leaky shed which was either too cold or too hot. You, Marie Curie,  at times worked for no salary while you stared at this little roaming circle of light over and over again to measure the level of radioactivity for thousands of samples.

 

Last but not least you (Marie) never really knew whether any of this work would turn out to be of any value and whether it would result in you getting your degree.

 

Even today in many ways this word picture is not far off from a scientist’s  typical experience. To be sure  many scientists  work in air conditioned offices instead of a shed but the grilling tedium is still there in copious amounts. 

 

But luck, hard work and diligence paid off for Marie.  All these sacrifices did accumulate  into one of the  most dramatic changes in our culture, our future. To this day the discovery of radium was one of the first steps toward  releasing  the  immense power contained in the atom;  it surely was one of the major stepping stones in getting to where we are at today. 

 

So for those of us who were lead to believe that science was mostly Thrilling, Exciting, and Dramatic?  hmmmmmmmmmmmmm? Yes, it can have its moments, but!

 

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A hidden secret did you find it? Try again with more hints. Review what it took Marie to carryout a successful research project?.  

Could   understanding this comparatively small obvious point  of repetitive dry hard work  and high risk endeavor somehow help us to  judge the worthiness of scientific work without knowing the science? With this critical use in mind lets summarize our short moment of being Marie's  at her  super sensitive radium radiation detector  -->.


go back to her unequaled discovery... Marie in this tedious work discovered that her radium samples were always  warmer than the surroundings would ordinarily let it be. Day after day year after year there was heat being generated by her radium. There  was no chemical reaction   that could sustain this continued release of heat--(energy)--which continued for years on end.  Marie was the first to find and recognized this enormous amount of  energy stored in the atom.  In the years to come her radium was  also used to measure the size of the nucleus, to do the first nuclear transmutation. All of this ultimately leading us to  the nuclear world; reactions in atomic bombs, nuclear  power plants, nuclear medicine, etc..

 

Lets see if we agree what is the  not so hidden secret message in this description of a scientist at work.
Trusting scientist work?   and how to discredit it.
Very very few scientist lie or misrepresent   their work after having put so much effort to get funding and tedious hard work to do the science right. If a scientist  did misrepresent their work they would soon be caught in the system of automatic checking that has to be done as the next scientist finds  that  using  the guilty scientist data in their work does not work. The guilty one   will  be quickly flagged and  publicly discredited,  The guilty one will likely  lose their funding and certainly their  creditability . An occasion scientist my do something unethical.  It can happen as in other professions but by comparison seldom in science   and when found is a good test of the scientific system of auto checking for accuracy. This  self regulation of the scientific profession should be  taught and inspired  again and again hopefully as enhanced permanent component of the science curriculum. The advertisement of  knowledge of this auto regulation phenomena is valuable  and could  help  to  protect  the public  from the misuse of their science for  uncivilized purposes using the scientist creditability arguments as a tool  for generating a mistrust of a specific scientific project.

Marie  was truly both the mother and father planting  and growing the seed that many scientist also took and grew into an enormous promise for  a better life or maybe no life.

Sooooo on with the  story of replicating and using Marie and Pierre laboratory equipment............
--Thrilling, exciting, and dramatic??? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm? This is  challenge for the Director and crew of

The Mystery of Matter.

A national science foundation sponsored  project.

 

.
Figures 3 & 4

Marie and Pierre were  not available for the shooting due to previous engagements. Replicas of Marie and Pierre Curie were substituted by very fine actors Marie Curie: Juliet Rylance and  Pierre Curie: Sebastian Roche


 
Jim & Rhoda have  replicated Marie and Pierre's  experiment as accurately as possible .  We are of the perception that Science is  too valuable too everyone to be needlessly misrepresented (Click here ref( 1).  The team working on this project understands this and have  used working instruments and experimental techniques that Marie would have used.   When the originals instrument were not available  we made accurate replicas of  them. If the chemicals used were unsafe to handle on the set we substituted safer chemicals but similar reactions etc.. The following part of this web site  outlines  our efforts toward this end.

A remarkable coincidence below  two husband and wife scientist teams meet with a time shift of a little over a century. But both are interested in Radium but for different reasons.

Marie & Pierre Curie and Rhoda  & Jim Morris  Their is a qute little story beginning to  come to light here.

We took the liberty of adding the little white light to the scale she is looking at. figure 5

Marie and Pierre   in their lab
figure 6

Rhoda and Jim in a part of our  lab showing the  complete replication of Marie radioactive radiation detecting setup on the  table. Note the wash bottle in Rhoda's hand.   The photo on the left. shows Marie holding her wash bottle in of her classic wash bottle pose. Figure 7

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The replication of the amount radium  Marie extracted from her tons of  pitchblende.
This tiny amount was the  product of years of toil, frustration, and elation. Followed by her premature death from radiation poisoning.


The amount of radium chloride that Marie extracted from more than a ton of pitchblende over a period of some 3 years of work. figure 8

  Figure 9



Photo's below', Replication of the crystal separation process used by Marie in her isolation of radium from pitchblende. The photo on the right is of the same sample as on the left but under radiation of a ultra-violet lamp. Note how there are crystals that came out first' they are on  outer rim. Its important to note that the separation is never entirely complete   so  the mixture has to be separated from the rest and re-crystallized again and again and again.--------Poor Marie.



 



figure 10
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Rhoda on the film set of
The Mystery of Matter replication  some of the chemical separation processes 
used by Marie separating radium from of pitchblende


Rhoda  replicating  one of the chemical extraction process
Marie  Curie used in her work for the separation of radioactive elements out of pitchblende. Figure 11

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Whipping up  some glowing samples to spread around the laboratory to represent the illusion of the radium fluorescing in the crystallizing dishes spread among the lab tables.Figure 12

 


Rhoda demonstrating before the directors possible chemical set ups for the film.  This is a scene not often pictured for the viewers. Everyone here is working hard to get the film right but often from very different perspectives. and a different "right". It is hard work but worth it. ("we're trying Marie. Rhoda is doing her best")
Figure 12a


The Curies very famous radiation detector.
 

Below a photo of Jim & Rhoda's  replication of the Curies very famous radiation detector. It's a tabletop full of high tech parts from a number of different branches of scientific research.  It is  a story within a story of how science works in a day by day basis. but there is no time to tell the instrument saga here and now. So onward.   This is the only picture showing the whole kit and computable that we know of so feast your eyes on this wonderful machine. Click the picture to get a bigger one to see all the detail.


Below we describe it piece by piece
.

Figure 14  this is the equipment on stage ready for shooting the scenes  for
Mystery of Matter. lick on the photo to get a better view- It's worth it.

 

Radioactive radiation detectors used by Marie Curie.
 The amount of effort and  time making one, and learning to operating one is substantial.

The discussion and  detail in the discussion below hopefully gives the reader  a view of how  hard we all try to get it  right as is possible.

First a bit of history. Radioactivity was first discovered during 1896 by the
French scientist Henri Becquerel The first radiation detector was a piece of photographic film which grew darker with  exposure to radioactive materials even though the film was in a light tight container. Soon after,  It was discovered that a radioactive substance would ionize air around it allowing the air to conduct electricity. The greater the radioactivity the better the air conducted electricity. Experimenters turned this feature into a  measuring tool to rank the strength of radioactivity in various samples.

Pierre Curie
had been using a super  sensitive instrument an electrometer figures 19,20,21 for measuring voltages using very small number of electrons, He had been using such a device and  a piezoelectric voltage device in some earlier work  and recommended it to Marie so that she might use a modification of it in her studies of   radioactivity in  minerals etc..

Marie's instrument

was  essentially  a condenser used as an ionization chamber, see figure below,
(insulator));,Definition of a condenser (two electrical conductors separated by a dielectric.

 Marie's condenser consists of two metal disks separated by a layer of air . By adding electrons, Figure 19 to one plate  of this condenser  Fig. 20. it would developed a voltage difference across the two plates.

Putting a sample between the plates Exposing the air between the two plates to the radiation from a radioactive substance would caused electrons flow from  one  plate  to the other plate. equalizing the portion of electrons between the plates thus dropping the voltage drop across them to zero

.

 


An  enhanced photo with very high voltage across ionization chamber, with out a sample present, checking for electron leaks that might alter the performance of its operation. The white-age glow shows some leaks.



The time for this to happen would be a  function of the magnitude of the radioactivity of the  sample 

So Marie's. in its simplest form radiation detector turned out to be;
a condenser( a very special condenser),  a source (a very special source) of electrons, a voltmeter ( a very special voltmeter figures 19,20,21 the one with the little moving spot of light) and a stop watch to measure the time  of equalizing the electrons from one plate to the other.

 ______________________________________________________

A more detailed description of Marie Curie’s Method for making the measurement the Radioactivity from Radium Samples
 put together for the director producer of  the Mystery of Matter showing the detail technical information considered to make the film as exact as possible. See circuit diagrams below the following discussion.

 (1/18/13, J & R M)

Overview

The process used by Marie Curie to measure the radioactivity of the radium samples she extracted from pitch blend can be explained as follows: 

  • It used the effect that radioactivity has on the conductivity of air in a sample chamber. . 
  • The sample chamber consisted of two plates separated by air called a condenser. The voltage across the plates was supplied by a voltage supplied by a piezo device.  
  • Because air is not conductive, no current flows from one plate to the other when the sample chamber is empty. 
  • When radium is placed on one of the chamber plates its radioactivity makes the air between the plates conductive and a current will flow.  When the electrical connection is broken by a switch, the charge across the condenser will discharge and the speed at which the voltage across the two plates changes will be a measure of the radioactivity.   So measuring the charge leakage and associated time is key.  
  • A fast change indicates high radioactivity and a slow change is due to low radioactivity.

 

Challenge of measuring small changes

The current changes Marie was measuring were ultra small, in the range of one thousandths of a billionth of an ampere, and very challenging to measure. 

  • She used a state of the art, very sensitive apparatus consisting of a quadrant electrometer in conjunction with a newly developed electrostatic charge generator (also called a piezoelectric instrument) developed earlier by Pierre Curie and his brother Jacques Curie for measuring very small current changes in insulators. 
  • This novel piezoelectric instrument could produce ultra small calibrated positive and negative charges by increasing or decreasing weights suspended from a specially configured quartz crystal.

 

Electrical circuit and measurement process

The sample chamber, the electrometer and the piezoelectric unit were connected as shown in the circuit diagram, figure 5 in reference1 in the cover letter. 

  • As mentioned above, with a radium sample in the condenser sample holder, a battery supplying voltage across it and the circuit switch closed, a small current flows through the condenser due to the conductivity of the air induced by the radioactivity of the sample.
  • The charge across the condenser plates is measured by the light spot on the quadrant electrometer scale. 
  • By opening the circuit switch, the current through the circuit will stop and the electrometer reading will change as the charge across the plates depletes.
  •  This depletion rate is dependent on the level of conductivity produced by the radioactive sample, a low rate very difficult to measure precisely.

 

The piezoelectric instrument to the rescue

With the piezoelectric instrument in the circuit Marie was able to measure the charge depletion rate of the sample condenser by supplying an equivalent charge in a measurable time to compensate for the loss.   

  • When  the circuit switch is opened and the electrometer light spot wants to change. She makes sure the electrometer is set at zero and the stop watch  is clicked on..  In a controlled manner, She carefully, adjusts  the weight on the piezoelectric device continually compensating for the condenser charge loss by keeping the electrometer spot at its original, zero position. 
  • This is required practice since any deviation of the electrometer light spot from the original zero introduced errors. 
  • With a stop watch running  she simultaneously measured the  in  hand  from when the electrometer spot  at zero first tried to move to when it no longer was controllable by removing weight.
  • The time measures when the same amount of electricity has passed through the condenser plates as was released by the piezoelectric quartz instrument. (This gives coulombs per unit time.) 
  • Finally using the equations relating the charges, times, currents and sample weights, she determined the radioactivity values for the radium samples tested by this method.    

 

 _______________________________________________________________
 

 

Below is a fair amount of  detail in  replicating the equipment that Marie Curie used in her early  radium work for measuring the level of the radioactivity from  samples  of a wide variety of mineral etc..

The bottom line
There are four major components making up the radiation detector;  a very precise piezoelectric source of electric charge to be placed across the plates of the ionization chamber,  a quadrant electrometer  measuring the status of this charge, a stop watch, not shown, for  measuring the discharge time of  the piezoelectric crystal.

 

As mentioned above  the instrument called the piezoelectric electrometer,   which they used  to the measure the level of radioactiveness from various sources was simple in concept and management of its operation turned out to be a challenge to understand and describe for the viewer.

Below are two photo showing an engagement of some of the experts debating how to carry out this task. They are  surrounding an exact replica of the Curie  instrument the authors of this website made used in thee the film while  discussing the instrument, its  operation  and how to describe it and its operation for the viewers of the film. The fuel  for the first session of the this high tech get together was cheese, crackers  beer. later we retired to  the a candle light dinning room  filled with cabinets of rare scientific instruments  followed by piesa  wine desert coffee and tea.

   

 Below is a set of three circuit diagrams  of  Curie's  radiation measuring apparatus.

the first comes from  a paper?????

..
figure13a Includes  a sketch including the electrostatic shielding, and optical configurations

This figure 13b below  shows a medium simplified circuit. by getting getting rid of the shielding and protection devices. It's still somewhat messy.



The figure13c below shows only the  essential components for basic understanding the operation of the detector.


 

The confusion  comes about in the role of the battery during the operation  plus  where the spot of light should be held on the scale at the start and during the time measurement.

 After much discussion the final conclusion was that the role of the battery is to give a starting bias voltage to the ionization chamber, not to furnish the electricity during the time measurement. The pieso devise is the sole supplier of the electricity needed to keep the voltage constant across the ionization chamber during the measurement. 

Any electricity coming from or to the battery during the measurement  causes an error in the measurement.  This error happens when the spot is allowed to go off zero.

The question of where to keep the spot of light is verified by Marie in an excerpt from one of her papers.  Below is a copy of Marie  Curie's view of  synchronizing   the motion of the light spot and stop watch to get most accurate readings for the level of radioactivity from a sample in the chamber. Here she shows a simplified version of the circuit similar to ours shown in figure13c and specifically states "it is better to balance the charge of the electrometer in a way to keep it at the zero reading" .





 


13-b and 13-c Marie's piezo electrometer.  In one of her publications listed above she has included an even simpler diagram
and explanation of her  preferred operation  including  maintaining the electrometer at zero during the test.
 

The photos below are showing the raw construction details we made of the piezoelectric driver  for the radiation measurement.
 


Making The components for the  metal frame of the special piezoelectric voltage generator
It was designed by Pierre and his brother  Marie used it for measuring the level of radioactivity  of her samples. The parts are just about ready to be silver  soldered. Figure 15


Cutting slots in the under top of the  wooden tripod stand for the legs that hold  the Piezoelectric power supply.Figure 16


Assembling the metal and the wooden components for the piezoelectric generator Figure 17
 


Its getting closer.
Adding the pan for carrying the weights which create  a voltage from the strain they put on the quartz crystal. thus applying   a charge across the ionization chamber. Figure 18



Our completed replica  of the infamous piezoelectric coulomb generator used in  Marie's radiation   measuring instrument. Figure 19


 The ionization chamber. Samples are placed between the horizontal circular plates and then covered to electrically shield them from stray electric voltages that would otherwise corrupt the measurements of radioactivity. Figure 20
 

--------------------------------

The Quadrant electrometer

.

figure 21

The Quadrant electrometer is  a very special voltmeter  developed by Lord Kelvin  used by Marie this is the most sensitive and accurate of all the mechanical electrometers. The original uses a light aluminum sector suspended inside a drum cut into four segments. The segments are insulated and connected diagonally in pairs. The charged aluminum sector is attracted to one pair of segments and repelled from the other. The deflection is observed by a beam of light reflected from a small mirror attached to the sector,

In this part of the replication we remotely  controlled  by radio the location  of light and its motion on the scale in front of Marie.  This  simulated the movement of the spot of light for the actor as if there was an actual sample of radioactive material  in the ionization chamber. We chose to do this  for the safety of the filming crew and actors thus  illuminating the  need of radioactive samples on the set.

The innards of the  quadrant electrometer.  The "d" sections have been opened to show the viewer the light aluminum vane of the unit just before  mounting  the 1 meter f. l.  mirror on the servo shaft. Figure 22

 
Installing the radio control servo for manipulating the light spot on the screen in front of Marie

Figure 23

 

 

Spectroscopy played such very important  role as a scientific tool that
a spectrum of a proposed element  was required by those keeping track of what was and what was not an element had to be taken before this committee  would validate its existence.

The Apparatus we replicated  for these scenes of Marie's chemical spectroscopy of Radium are below.

 


The completer spectroscopic setup; power supply, spectral light source,
over and under slit spectroscope, samples, book case filled with reference data  Figure 24


Spectroscope, chemicals, double spectral  spark source to record radium spectra.Figure 25


Close up view of the dual spectral light source and the split  entrance slit of the spectroscope Figure 26


Figure 27 The spectra of each atom ion or molecule is very distinct from one another. These  bar codes of  rainbows cover a range of frequencies from smaller than little and larger than big---they can only be expressed via quantum theory.  Everything we know about our universe basically come from spectroscopy and here is Marie's atomic spectrum of radium in all its beauty.

Here is Marie

The founding members experimentalist , theoretician of the  nuclear scientist club. Each a competitor and colleague.
Marie bottom row 2nd from the right surrounded with  the giants of physics that set fire to our culture in the most critical yet obtuse way.

1911-Solvay Conference on the theory of radiation and quanta:”

 

.Marie looks very down why?


Figure28

Question Did Madam Curie shown above (in one of her more reflective moments) act as a scientist
pushing back the frontiers of science or act as an engineer working on what would be called an Atomic Bomb?
The nominal  spherical mass is crudely the size  of the  critical   mass for an  235U
nuclear weapon . It.should be  56 kg,[3] a sphere 17.32 cm (6.8") in diameter?

 

Einstein in the  famous photo below shows great  frustration with who ever he is looking at. Why? What is he trying to tell us with all of his soul?
In  the beginning of his career he was young handsome man, note him standing behind Marie in the photo above. A young scientist at the height of his important discoveries. He certainly looks older in picture below. To some much older than his age. To many it's fun to poke fun at a scientist.  But here he is not poking fun at the viewer.


What  do you think
this gentleman's opinion of us is?

Question looking at the selected photos of these these two world famous scientist could they be disappointed with what we have done with their contribution thus far?             Really!            Could they?

 

Some observe that it is the little things about science that can become the most important part of science  especially in the  formation of the  nonscientist public opinion  of some piece of scientific work. This is especially true when scientist are evaluating the results of some far reaching scientific project which maybe crucially complex and crucially important to our culture.

How is one to  judge the trueness of their opinions.
1st and foremost what are the sources  of information used  forming the opinion?  
 

 

Why ask the question

 

For example, The solution to this dilemma or misunderstanding can be a simple piece of information that plays a big part in our point of judgment of the truthfulness of a scientific result . If the non scientific publics overall opinion is not sound and they don't accurately  digest  some piece of  scientific work it might result in a spectacularly noisy and warm world like 1,000,000 of these        going off spread over a ?0 years.  Using this energy in a controlled way to replace carbon as our primary source of energy might be better than using it as a non political solutions to that someone's needs.

 

How are we to  judge the trueness of a piece of scientific work, work that is extremely complex  and complex to understand. Work that  would  concern everyone every thing. Of course more often than not we use the fundamental method of trust of the people or organization used as your primary  source.

How is one to  judge the trueness of an opinion What are the sources  of information used  forming the opinion?  Why ask the question

How is one to  judge the trueness of an opinion What are the sources  of information used  forming the opinion?  Why ask the question

 

 

 

One of the little but important things in judging the trueness of a piece of scientific work, work that is extremely complex  to understand. is sort of  diagnostic tool we use in other circumstances of our daily life. the question  can we emotionally trust the source of the info and why the person or organization's. So it is important to know what is the working environment of the source not so much the person or organization.

 

 a typical scientist and the  fellow scientist working on the same project, What kind of rules and environment do scientist  live in and by?  the incidental day by day  monotony of the work. It seems trivial doesn't it. Remember Marie in her work.  Think of it,  only  a few humans out of the multitude of all the bright  people in the world can take and live with the monotony being a scientist. It  is  not just being  resourceful and creative that makes a scientist, it is having the determination, the willingness in spite of the boredom and frustration to get  your project right. 
The average day in a scientist project is so boring to the average person that the story tellers; the historians, ,The media  can only hold our interest  by working really  hard at building the few  short moments of glorious feeling to a super height to keep the viewers //  readers attention. Of course this process tends to distort the view  of how scientist work so much so that to the average person  pauses,  wonders whether the scientist  had the patients or common sense to get it right. Few of the nonscientific public  emotionally  feel that the results of a project  is just plain hard ass work. The tedious work of getting  repeatability of the measured data and  getting the same answer by other ways as well.  Of course in time the scientist  answer will be measured more accurately by the next generation. on and on Just like light Marie's little spot of light has been made brighter and righter with time.

The authors wonder if we would be worth concentrating  little more on checking our sources of info that we use to form our opinions. Especially when some of the work is so important to our civilization. that  instead of living in a confusion  and profusion by technical knowledge to get to gain a scientific trueness  instead could it be better to develop an  emotional awareness of how hard it is to survive  as scientific scientist and to have your work accepted by your colleagues. In their world scientist depend enormously on the other scientist work to do theirs . if the other guy is wrong than all of your hard won work goes down the drain.  could this fact be  strong enough to validate their results most of the time for the average folk that have  more important things to do than take science courses, courses  that might lower your grade average which might prevent you from taking further degrees and or getting a better job. There has to be a better way?

 

To be expamnded----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 it must  come  about. It is  also to know who are the judges the lawyers the judges and policemen that protect us from  the evil ways a wayward a scientist or groups of scientist. for a lot of practical reason we can not be in the lab/office to study their behaviors their environments they operate to judge.

We can  give you a view of working replicas of her equipment most were tested   and found to be working order in our laboratories. We give  descriptions for replica on some occasions the operation might be run   limited manner of operation to a safe mod so as not endanger the people on the set.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Caution the following pages are a collection of  rough unedited disjointed notes  by one of the authors (jim). They express  thoughts and experiences with Marie Curie and science developed  over the last 70 years years.  They are  the author's opinions and do not represent the opinions of any of our sponsors.

The author (jim)  first connection with Marie was a 1943 movie  staring Greer Garson, Walter Pidgeon. The author left the theater struck with a bad case of puppy love  for her and science. These two loves have  never died.  The following are just notes, styles, thoughts to ultimately build a more coherent theme.

 From wikipedia The film was nominated for Academy Awards for Best Actor in a Leading Role (Walter Pidgeon), Best Actress in a Leading Role (Greer Garson), Best Art Direction-Interior Decoration, Black-and-White (Cedric Gibbons, Paul Groesse, Edwin B. Willis, Hugh Hunt), Best Cinematography, Black-and-White, Best Music, Scoring of a Dramatic or Comedy Picture, Best Picture, and Best Sound, Recording (Douglas Shearer).[4][5]

 

Caution the following pages are a collection of  rough unedited disjointed notes  by one of the authors (jim). They express  thoughts and experiences with Marie Curie and science developed  over the last 70 years years.  They are  the author's opinions and do not represent the opinions of any of our sponsors.

The author (jim)  first connection with Marie was a 1943 movie  staring Greer Garson, Walter Pidgeon. The author left the theater struck with a bad case of puppy love  for her and science. These two loves have  never died.  The following are just notes, styles, thoughts to ultimately build a more coherent theme.

 From wikipedia The film was nominated for Academy Awards for Best Actor in a Leading Role (Walter Pidgeon), Best Actress in a Leading Role (Greer Garson), Best Art Direction-Interior Decoration, Black-and-White (Cedric Gibbons, Paul Groesse, Edwin B. Willis, Hugh Hunt), Best Cinematography, Black-and-White, Best Music, Scoring of a Dramatic or Comedy Picture, Best Picture, and Best Sound, Recording (Douglas Shearer).[4][5]

 

 

 
MADAME CURIE by Larry Keegan
no lovely lady
should hold this power
in her hand
she felt the very fire
of the universe in her fingertips
a warm tremor that
could not be explained

how the world was structured
we did not know
a lovely lady
should not tell us
of the nucleus
of all things

she had not heard of Hiroshima
or Chernobyl
or a beam that radiates
and cured my cancer

lady scientist
in the chambers of time
you will select for us
those substances
contain this secret
source of fire
 

oh Marie
oh Marie
unstable nucleus in your hand

You study the electrostatic
see which
substances contain
the unidentified stream
emissions

tell us lady scientist
in science's merky past
which elements radiate

no lovely lady should hold
this power
please tell us, lady
which elements

as you walk towards us
hands folded cup-like
in an offertory
almost a liturgy

bring us the power
cascading from
the alchemy of stars

 

 


 

WORK IN PROGRESSThis has to be one of the most well known photos of a scientist who was all ready well known. with hunders maybe thousands of photos take of him and avaiable to the public before this likeness showed up  so what is he saying after livimng so  many years having done so much through  science tha effected each and everyone of us. what is this last message  that is reaching out to each and everyone that can  all cultures both sexes all ages..seen whT IAS HUIS LAST WORD TO US

Question what is he telling the viewer . As I 've studied it over and over again. Their is one messaage he maybe be convaying to the viewer is that he is telling the view in body language  what he thinks of you personally Dr.Einstie

 


On the side The authors of this web page http://www.scitechantiques.com/  in real life The Curies had their bicycles we have our antique off shore  cursing sloop

Jim & Rhoda doing the bottom paint on their sailboat.

 Rhoda the skipper of Josh with a rain storm in the offing.

Yes you control it  with your left hand but ever so slightly. The least twitch and the spot light will zip off your chosen location.  The dot of light is being controlled by you co-supporting a weight  anywhere from 50 to 500 grams which is sitting on a tray  that is hanging from a piezoelectric crystal.  this weight is distorting a crystal of pure quartz which At the same time your will be  using your left  hand to  control a stop watch. This process goes on until the fussy little spot decides it is not going to be controlled by you  any longer but starts to runs  off the  screen  signaling you to stop your stop watch. that next step is to enter the time of control into your log book and include the particulars of the sample etc. You don't do this just  once but  thousands of time over a  3 to 5 years period. Added  to thrilling job is a personal sacrifice of no small magnitude. Marie died prematurely because of here work with radioactive chemicals.

 

ref(1)This takes experience experimenters with the resource to acquire or build the and run the equipment. It takes thoughtful direction of the project management.

http://www.scitechantiques.com/      K1ugm@comcast.net    Jim & Rhoda Morris   781 245 2897  

Notes

1. basic research business is to discover ground work the seed the business to continue to solve most of these problems. but business cant afford to have their present product obsoleted bby a new scientific discovers unless they own. it that could force them out of business.

 

 

All photos and written material are by Jim & Rhoda Morris unless noted otherwise. Free personal and educational use and reproduction is encouraged--- Acknowledgment is appreciated; all commercial rights are reserved

Notice we are not spokesmen for the Mystery of Matter project funded by the NSF. The views expressed by the authors are our own private point of views. We just helped out by furnishing instruments and technical advice.
MADAME CURIE by Larry Keegan
no lovely lady
should hold this power
in her hand
she felt the very fire
of the universe in her fingertips
a warm tremor that
could not be explained

how the world was structured
we did not know
a lovely lady
should not tell us
of the nucleus
of all things

she had not heard of Hiroshima
or Chernobyl
or a beam that radiates
and cured my cancer

lady scientist
in the chambers of time
you will select for us
those substances
contain this secret
source of fire
 

oh Marie
oh Marie
unstable nucleus in your hand

You study the electrostatic
see which
substances contain
the unidentified stream
emissions

tell us lady scientist
in science's merky past
which elements radiate

no lovely lady should hold
this power
please tell us, lady
which elements

as you walk towards us
hands folded cup-like
in an offertory
almost a liturgy

bring us the power
cascading from
the alchemy of stars

 

Pan·do·ra (p²n-dôr"…, -d½r"…) n. Greek Mythology. The first woman, bestowed upon humankind as a punishment for Prometheus's theft of fire. Entrusted with a box containing all the ills that could plague people, she opened it out of curiosity and thereby released all the evils of

Pan·do·ra's box (p²n-dôr"…z, -d½r"-) n. A source of many unforeseen troubles: "Reform is a Pandora's box; opening up the system can lead to a loss of economic and political control" (Russell Watson).

 I am using Galileo's method of conversation. is he can do it I should be allowed to also.

 

 we are using a pipe line used only in the scientific world